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  Changing the wheelbase
 From: Tim | Posted: 2/13/2006 7:57:43 AM |
I C live people

Posts: 2411
Changing the wheelbase

What other options are there, besides chopping the frame, to adjust the wheelbase an inch or so? ...and are would they be better?


 From: Dee | Posted: 2/13/2006 8:12:54 AM |
I Wanna 89

Posts: 1409
RE: Changing the wheelbase

Ok Tim we'll continue on here. Uni-body, does that mean the strength is built into the roof and if I de-body the car, the chassis will bend/sag. Dammit I thought i found the perfect car.

Hmmmmmm

 From: Dee | Posted: 2/13/2006 8:20:38 AM |
I Wanna 89

Posts: 1409
RE: Changing the wheelbase

Found this. Lot of reading but informative

Unibody Construction


Hmmmmmm

 From: Dee | Posted: 2/13/2006 8:37:21 AM |
I Wanna 89

Posts: 1409
RE: Changing the wheelbase

or to put it another way, Could any of these methods be incorporated to the unibody construction

Ladder Chassis

Major structure of chassis is supported by central rails connected by cross braces. Used in vehicles of the 60s, and still used in trucks and SUVs due to good isolation between passenger cabin and road vibration. Since it is two dimensional it is not very stiff, and needs to be built heavier than a good space frame

Tubular Space Frame
Very strong chassis construction technique, often used in race cars and ultra high performance ($$$) sports cars. The structure is formed from individual tubes, usually welded into a web of supports. Actually cheaper to build for small production runs, since hand production is involved. This technique is not feasible for general production vehicles due to the fact that automated production is next to impossible.



Unibody Chassis
This type of chassis is constructed of formed sheet metal pieces all spot welded together to form a metal box which makes up the structural and functional body of the car. Usually the metal used is steel, but some newer vehicles use aluminum to reduce material cost. Steel is usually formed by stamping with dies. Aluminum can be formed by stamping, but newer cars are using advanced hydroforming techniques to form panels. These structures are usually relatively stiff, although they are not necessarily designed to optimize this. They are generally heavier than a tubeframe structure, but also safer. These types of chassis are usually more feasible for large production vehicles, as tooling is very expensive.



Composite Monocoque Chassis

The lightest, most advanced performance vehicles ($$$$$$) employ this strategy for their chassis. Similar to unibody in form, but many different advanced materials are employed, such as fiberglass, carbon fiber, Kevlar, or glass fiber reinforced polymer (GFRP). These chassis are light, stiff, and expensive to produce. Making composite structures is very labor intensive, and the materials themselves are expensive. However the end product if correctly designed is the lightest and stiffest possible. The most advanced racecars use these structures, as do some supercars (such as the Porsche 959 or the Mclaren F1).


Hmmmmmm

 From: Tim | Posted: 2/13/2006 8:54:28 AM |
I C live people

Posts: 2411
RE: Changing the wheelbase

With uni-body, the body is the chassis.



as opposed to something like this




With uni-body vehicle, the strength and support comes from the body itself. The engine and suspension are attached to the body. You would be cutting that up and then re-engineering it to allow for the '89 body to fit over it. In my opinion, you would be much better off in finding a vehicle with an appropriate "ladder chassis", remove the existing body, fabricate a new under body and cap it off with the fiberglass '89 body. (to put it very simply)


Last Edited by Tim: 2/13/2006 8:54:59 AM

 From: Tim | Posted: 2/13/2006 9:06:54 AM |
I C live people

Posts: 2411
RE: Changing the wheelbase

additional info...

Frame Terminology:

Unibody Construction:
Most vehicles today are manufactured with a Unitized Body/Frame (Unibody) construction. This is a manufacturing process where sheet metal is bent and formed then spot welded together to create a box which makes up the structural frame and functional body of the car. These vehicles have "crumple Zones" to protect the passengers in case of a collision.




Body-on-Frame Construction:
Most heavy duty trucks and a few premium full-size cars are still manufactured with a body-on-frame construction. This is a manufacturing process which a weight-bearing frame is welded together and then the engine, driveline, suspension, and body are bolted to the frame.





 From: Tim | Posted: 2/13/2006 9:35:28 AM |
I C live people

Posts: 2411
RE: Changing the wheelbase

(this was supposed to be a wheelbase thread )


 From: Dee | Posted: 2/13/2006 9:41:13 AM |
I Wanna 89

Posts: 1409
RE: Changing the wheelbase

What if a tubular frame made to the dimentions of the 89 were to be welded to the remaining unibody chassis. Do you think that would work??

Hmmmmmm

 From: Kevin | Posted: 2/13/2006 11:11:14 AM |
"Not"

Posts: 906
RE: Changing the wheelbase

If you were to build a tubular frame for an Uni-body or Uni-frame construction there would be no need to attach it to this type of vehicle. There arenít any real mount points to attach the frame to the Uni-frame. Major modifications like this is better left to the engineers.

The Cobra shop we use to fabricate the 66 builds frames for his Cobras. A full frame is fabricated from scratch and Corvette suspension is installed to the frame, the body is then installed on the frame.



The C4 Corvette Uni-Frame bird cage construction.




 From: Tim | Posted: 2/13/2006 11:43:32 AM |
I C live people

Posts: 2411
RE: Changing the wheelbase

I don't think Dee is talking about mounting a unibody to a frame.What he's asking is if he could chop a unibody and then reinforce it with steel tubing. Sure, you could do that, but I think the integrity of the unibody chassis would be severly compromised. If you were to wreck it the whole thing might just fold in half.


 From: Kevin | Posted: 2/13/2006 12:04:30 PM |
"Not"

Posts: 906
RE: Changing the wheelbase

Tim you are right, there is no safe way to modify an uni-frame or uni-body construction without sacrificing safety. With so many viable cars to use like the Caprice and Impalas why would any one want to do this to begin with is beyond me?


 From: stocklottery | Posted: 2/13/2006 12:09:23 PM |

Posts: 97
RE: Changing the wheelbase

Structure integrity, safety, and other reasons was the reason I back out of using a camaro as my donor car (a unibody) per my earlier post. Dee, Kevin is right on about using other viable cars such as the Caprice and/or the Impalas.


 From: timwylie | Posted: 2/13/2006 12:15:13 PM |
Ex-Troll

Posts: 253
RE: Changing the wheelbase

Don't several cars have a 141 wheelbase? Like the 88-92 GMC Seirra trucks... I just typed in "141 wheelbase" in yahoo and several cars came up.


 From: Kevin | Posted: 2/13/2006 12:25:41 PM |
"Not"

Posts: 906
RE: Changing the wheelbase

The problem with the trucks is that you have to make major suspension changes to get the ride height low enough. I donít know it you would be able to lower the motor enough to clear the hood.
You can always give it a try. Bob use to use truck rear ends to get the right stance for the vehicle.



 From: Hassiem | Posted: 2/13/2006 1:28:42 PM |
HAWKONE

Posts: 195
RE: Changing the wheelbase

You can do it ,,,its the same way as chopping a fiero and using the chassis with steel tube or squared off reinforcements for the Diablo roadster version, you can go either way if you know what your doing!


**********************

 From: timwylie | Posted: 2/13/2006 1:55:15 PM |
Ex-Troll

Posts: 253
RE: Changing the wheelbase

Well, I'm probably not doing either for quite some time. But I was just wondering if those problems would be easier to fix than extending the frame. I don't have any clue so I thought I'd ask.


 From: Dee | Posted: 2/13/2006 5:57:40 PM |
I Wanna 89

Posts: 1409
RE: Changing the wheelbase

I was just wondering if those problems would be easier to fix than extending the frame

That was my consideration aswell Tim2. I'll openly admit I don't have any chassis knowelege and although i'm not looking for the easy way out i'm looking for an alternative way out. I appreciate Kevins and everyones comments on the unibody as a bad way to go but no-one in Ireland is prepared to build me a chassis and i'm at the mercy of the site as to my next move. Things are getting very close now and i'd like to have a chassis to work off. So what's my next move????


Hmmmmmm

 From: Tim | Posted: 2/13/2006 6:06:36 PM |
I C live people

Posts: 2411
RE: Changing the wheelbase

Buy a car with frame rails. I believe Jack bought just the frame from a scrap yard.


 From: Dee | Posted: 2/13/2006 6:09:08 PM |
I Wanna 89

Posts: 1409
RE: Changing the wheelbase

So in a nut shell, should i forget about the limo???

Hmmmmmm

 From: Jack | Posted: 2/13/2006 6:14:32 PM |
N'D middle

Posts: 1947
RE: Changing the wheelbase

Listen I think you are getting to wrapped around the axle or frame in this case. It's really not that hard to lenghten the frame rails. 2 cuts and your half way there. I did mine in about 2 hours. It's taken longer to do everything else.


 From: Nitro | Posted: 2/13/2006 7:12:58 PM |
Number 3

Posts: 741
RE: Changing the wheelbase

Lots of great info from every one.


 From: MARK TOWLE | Posted: 2/13/2006 11:02:33 PM |
COORS LIGHT

Posts: 246
RE: Changing the wheelbase

SOME OF YOU ARE TALKING OUTSIDE YOUR LEVEL OF KNOWLAGE AND SKILL...... YES YOU CAN EXTEND A C4 CORVETTE SAFELY ..THE PICT KEVIN IS SHOWING IS VERY MISSLEADING THERE ARE FRAME RAILS THAT WERE CUT OFF BEHIND THE FRONT WHEELS THAT TIE THE REAR SUSPENSION IN TO THE FRAME A C4 CORVETTE IS NOT A UNIBODY ALSO KEEP IN MIND THE CAR COMES FROM THE FACTORY WITH NO ROOF SO NO SUPPORT IS NEEDED ........IF YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW TO SAFELY EXTEND A CORVETTE CALL ME 9494009389 AND ILL BE GLAD TO EXPLAIN IT TO YOU PS THE OTHER BIG PLUS OF A C4 VETTE IS THE DOOR PANELS LINE UP WITH THE 89'S INTERIOR AND THE DOOR CAN BE LEFT ON THE CHASIS FOR SIDE IMPACT SAFTY

Last Edited by MARK TOWLE: 2/13/2006 11:07:04 PM
DONT HATE THE PLAYER HATE THE GAME

 From: stocklottery | Posted: 2/14/2006 12:14:27 AM |

Posts: 97
RE: Changing the wheelbase

Right on MARK...KNOWLEDGE AND SKILL...in reengineering the cars unibody structure support safely is the key. I don't know about you guys but I for one don't have that sort of in depth knowledge to mess with a unibody design and spare cash laying around for a used C4 Corvette.

Might as stay with my affordable Caprice (easier to modify).






 From: MARK TOWLE | Posted: 2/14/2006 12:32:28 AM |
COORS LIGHT

Posts: 246
RE: Changing the wheelbase

CAN DO YA A ROLLER(BODY MOUNTED TO A C4 AND CANOPIES WORKING) FOR 25K

Last Edited by MARK TOWLE: 2/14/2006 12:35:15 AM
JUST THE FACTS MAMM

 From: Justin | Posted: 2/14/2006 1:14:09 AM |
"Tumbler"

Posts: 1355
RE: Changing the wheelbase

Nice price! How do you plan on making your canopy work? I have seen only 2 successfull methods so far. Which are you using Mark?

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