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Batmobile Forum
 If yer gona have a batmobile, ya gottsa have a suit |
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From: Dee
| Posted: 9/21/2005 3:20:41 AM
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Irish
Posts: 1409 |
RE: If yer gona have a batmobile, ya gottsa have a suit Bob how long does it take you to make a suit. Start to finish. Including suit, cowl, cape, boots, everything starting from the bodycast?? 
PS. In ur last pic, wot happened to Batmans ear??? Last Edited by Dee: 9/21/2005 3:21:37 AM 
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From: jonhunt
| Posted: 9/21/2005 3:37:08 AM
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Dark Knight
Posts: 49 |
RE: If yer gona have a batmobile, ya gottsa have a suit Ok.... don't mean to insult or irritate you, but I have talked to Stan Winston's crew before and they offered to build me a Predator replica for $15,000. This price included the cost for bodycasting and to get the blades to function. I don't see a movie studio spending more for ONE costume (not to mention all the stunt doubles) then they probably spend making the three or four cars used in the film. I also talked to the crew that did Aliens and was told that they could build an Alien costume for around $11,000. Once again, I'm not saying your work isn't worth every dime of whatever it cost... but I've worked with foam latex and I have to say that building a car from scratch is far more difficult. I haven't even started building my Batmobile yet, but just from reading I can tell there's more steps involved and at a much higher price. As far as when doing a body mold you needing to get molds of the skin texture... I don't understand why in the world you bother getting skin textures when you're just going to cover it up with foam latex. All you need is a basic shape, one that isn't to big or too small. You can acheive this by wrapping the person in saran wrap just so the Body-Double or Alginate doesn't stick to the hair on their arms or legs. Sculpting is a huge part of it, but at $3.95 per pound of good oil based clay I don't really see you using $40,000 in clay. As far as foam is concerned, well, it expands... and can rise to an incredible height if you use the right agents. You can build a nice foam oven using simple heating coils, fans, and a thermostat... inclose it all in a big box using heat shielding and you're set. Just my two cents for the guys on here that bust their arses helping by answering all my car questions. VROOM VROOM! 
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From: BOBBY C
| Posted: 9/21/2005 3:51:54 AM
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Posts: 77 |
RE: If yer gona have a batmobile, ya gottsa have a suit are you sure you are talking about Steve Wang? thats funny, I spent $30,000 x 2 for to life size props,(guyver and zolinoid) from Steve. he must be a friend of your family or something. and that is with a bodycast? and functional blades? Steve sells his guyver heads alone for $7k his predator heads alone are $10k . Last Edited by BOBBY C: 9/21/2005 3:56:45 AM |
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From: BOBBY C
| Posted: 9/21/2005 4:34:47 AM
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Posts: 77 |
RE: If yer gona have a batmobile, ya gottsa have a suit Steves 10k pred head. 
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From: Dee
| Posted: 9/21/2005 4:39:33 AM
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Irish
Posts: 1409 |
RE: If yer gona have a batmobile, ya gottsa have a suit Now that is an awesome piece. Holy shit thats realistic. Is that yours Bobby???
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From: BOBBY C
| Posted: 9/21/2005 4:46:46 AM
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Posts: 77 |
RE: If yer gona have a batmobile, ya gottsa have a suit when we do suits wer feel they should be displayed in a proper manor . I happen to love the designs in forever. and begins. here is where my 95 car will be at. 
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From: BOBBY C
| Posted: 9/21/2005 4:48:26 AM
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Posts: 77 |
RE: If yer gona have a batmobile, ya gottsa have a suit
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From: BOBBY C
| Posted: 9/21/2005 4:50:17 AM
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Posts: 77 |
RE: If yer gona have a batmobile, ya gottsa have a suit Hi Dee , that is Steve's piece I like pred. But Batman is were it is at. |
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From: Dee
| Posted: 9/21/2005 4:55:26 AM
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Irish
Posts: 1409 |
RE: If yer gona have a batmobile, ya gottsa have a suit Bobby seriously. If I had a hat I'd tip it to U. That is a jaw dropping display and can only hope to have 1 half as good some day. I'm building a new house and have designed it to have a room dedicated to my collection. Did it take you long to get it together???
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From: BOBBY C
| Posted: 9/21/2005 4:55:48 AM
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Posts: 77 |
RE: If yer gona have a batmobile, ya gottsa have a suit Basically what I am getting at is , you cannot judge the size of 1 item and think it is less work.
I have now experience on both ends and each staute. costume and car have there major levels of difficulty , I have the holes in my walls to prove it. in my personal goals , It is not the time but the final piece of art at the end. |
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From: BOBBY C
| Posted: 9/21/2005 5:03:13 AM
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Posts: 77 |
RE: If yer gona have a batmobile, ya gottsa have a suit  Hi Dee , well first I had to literally buld the room. then design it and then start the preperation for the displays, Bob D will be coming over to help form cave walls with me soon.
I just recently had all sorts of charecters in the room , but C3p0 and R2d2 do not fit in the Batcave. My goal is to make a miniture Gotham in my home. here are some pics.  
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From: BOBBY C
| Posted: 9/21/2005 5:14:58 AM
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Posts: 77 |
RE: If yer gona have a batmobile, ya gottsa have a suit Dee , you just have to really set your goals and go after it. I was fortunate to Meet Bob to help me out, I cannot begin to tell you how many times I have been laughed at when I told them I was building a car ( of course it was behind my back) you really have to be serious. famliy most of the times are the ones to say "are you crazy ?" friends will say "Thats cool dude" not really believing you. or when you go to a shop asking for a certain part clerk: whats it for? Me: a project clerk: what kind ? Me :uhhh..um..uh The Batmobile Clerk: oh a camero. you will go thru so much crap from people who cannot see it really happening . But just keep going. |
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From: Dee
| Posted: 9/21/2005 5:16:49 AM
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Irish
Posts: 1409 |
RE: If yer gona have a batmobile, ya gottsa have a suit That is truely inspirational. MTV Cribs is shite compared to ur room. I got a few standies and wovie weapons, Lightsabers that sort of thing but i'm goin home wit a match to burn the lot after seeing ur collection. I can't get over it. amazing. U topped it off wit R2- D2 and C3PO. How and where do U find all the stuff??? I have an email eagerly waiting for some info??? Must get my collection going.
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From: Jack
| Posted: 9/21/2005 6:29:01 AM
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I wish
Posts: 1947 |
RE: If yer gona have a batmobile, ya gottsa have a suit OMG Bobby you are so right about people looking at you like your nuts and asking if you are crazy when you talk about building a B-machine. Just mention how long you've been working on it or how much money you have spent and they really give you the "Why" treatment. I just tell them it's been a dream of mine since I first saw the car in 1989 opening night at 1:00am for a sneek preview. We were pretty poor growing up and my mom used to say "Jack when you grow up you will have your own money and then you can buy any toy you want". Well Mom was correct and I do. (Don't tell my wife) |
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From: Kevin
| Posted: 9/21/2005 8:36:58 AM
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Nodeman
Posts: 906 |
RE: If yer gona have a batmobile, ya gottsa have a suit Jack I told her the last time I spoke with her on the phone, your busted... |
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From: Jack
| Posted: 9/21/2005 9:20:13 AM
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I wish
Posts: 1947 |
RE: If yer gona have a batmobile, ya gottsa have a suit Dang it!! I'm calling the Troll, he'll fix you! 
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From: Dee
| Posted: 9/21/2005 9:34:12 AM
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Irish
Posts: 1409 |
RE: If yer gona have a batmobile, ya gottsa have a suit We're all the same 'Don't Tell The Wife' boat Jack. Weather we like it or not. 
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From: Baneful
| Posted: 9/21/2005 10:32:32 AM
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Posts: 157 |
RE: If yer gona have a batmobile, ya gottsa have a suit I was never the one to be impressed with suits but that suits in display case with Alfred.....speechless 
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From: youngbat
| Posted: 9/21/2005 11:40:07 AM
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Posts: 150 |
RE: If yer gona have a batmobile, ya gottsa have a suit Jon, I too have made a home-made oven with plywood, heating coils, a fan, etc. They suck. It sounds like you have some friends who have some experience at this but you haven't lived through it all personally, in terms of a full-size foam latex suit. What happens is that you get into a lot of problems if you don't have a pro. made oven. you get cold spots, uneven cured foam, hot spots, which causes steam laking. I threw my home-made oven out and sucked it up and bought a huge walk-in oven that is made of stainless steel, and heats up to 200deg. What a massive improvement in the quality of the foam, the foam bakes much quicker. Makes way more sense. Yes the Foam itself is not terribly expensive, but.. if you are going to make enough foam to inject a bodysuit, you will be needing a huge mixer. then the ammonia from that mixer will whip into the air, and burn your eyes unless you have a.... vent system(lets not forget to use our resp.). lets not forget about the injection gun. How many grms of foam does it take to inject a torso the size of a batsuit?? are we adding this up? Then you mention the rise of the foam. Yes I run a high volume foam. Have you ever tried to inject a high volume foam and get a flawless piece in a mechanicaly perfect seamless batsuit? show me your work. I want to see the quality of what your experiences are. quality, quality, quality. I want to see a Super High rise foam that gets injected into a seamless mold, comes out of the oven with zero steam laking, zero lose skin, zero air pockets, and is evenly cured in less than 24 hrs. also must be internally reinforced with 4 way power stretch. can't use flowincreaser because it increases shrinkage. Most everyone I know in L.A. has an industrial size and quality oven. If you have to do good foam it's almost a ness. I found that out the hard way. Yes you can find guys in L.A. who will do you a costume for 10, 15k. but what are you going to get? Jordu Schell will do one for without the head piece for 10k, I was going to do a colaborative project for someone with him, on a predator suit. Bodycasts, saran wrap. Yes Rob Burman does that in his video. You can also get into tights and wipe yourself down with vasaline. Have you personely tried this? what a freekin mess.... You need to be able to identify body parts if you want an accurate fit. You need to be able to see elbows, and knees caps so you know that the knee caps will be exactly in the right place. Then you need to make a master mold of this bodycast so you can have copies for putting fresh foam pieces on, for storing finished suits, and for basicaly sizing things up. Look at how tight and clean the My begins torso sits on that partial bodycast. I can tell you, you wont get that if you saran wrap someone and cast them(if you do, it's because you spent countless hrs cleaning up the jaggedy bodycast). Let's talk about the smoothon body alginate. Have you ever been bodycasted from neck to wrist, to the top of your feet? it's hell. The more weight you have pressing down on a body part, that part will slowly go numb. It's not too bad to use aliginate or silicone on just a partial body part, but to do the whole thing from neck to feet, while your standing up on your feet ain't fun. would be a real drag using heavy material. You'd need about 5 guys all bumping into each other to get it done fast enough before the subject would freek out and want to get out of the thing. Very claustrophobic process. I have seen the videos too. What a laugh. There is a much easier way to do that. clay, I only use chavant, or a high end clay. tools. My tools come from old school auto sculptors. can't get most of my tools from chavant. Clay oven. to block out the car, or batsuit, you need an oven that will warm up enough clay to get it on quickly. Bob C, and I each have one for this. without it it's insane. Here is a picture of my sculpture of this torso you are looking at. No sanding here. no pulling a hard copy out of a mold, then filling it with bondo or some crap and sanding the shit out of it. clay to mold to foam. 
Lately I have been messing with painting the clay so I can see details better. sometimes old clay gets sort of marbly (sulphur separation) so painting evens out the color so you get a more realistic look at it. Now I see everyone and their brother painting their clay. So now to compare doing specialty costumes to a car. First you have to identify the end result of both the costume and the car. Will this be a very elaborate, high-end costume, or statue, and a shitty car, or the reverse. Lets look at the reverse. costume: sculpted on a bad bodycast, or a mannequin(no difference) use inexpensive oilbased clay, get some art store tools, plaster molds for some slip latex, Wow, the dirty deed will be done dirt cheap I say!!! you'll get a skin of slip latex. pop it on a guy who looks the part, and everytime he takes a step, the rubber folds like cardboard. But hey I'll bet you got outa this for under 500 bucks, and did it in a small corner of your basement. now the car: custom made chassis, edelbrock engine or better, top of the line tires, tig welding (airplane quality welds), let Kevin here break down how much you could potentialy spend. the point to this is.. the general public sees car making as much more serious endevour TYPICALLY than they do specialty costume making. I got this when I used to make the batman costumes for six flags back in 91/92. I know that guy kevin knows used to make a bit of coin with the stunt show cars. I even have a video I took of one of the cars close up. It was done pretty low-end. everything pretty cheap looking. you can make a car cheap, and you can make a costume cheap, or you can put the time and effort and make them each top-notch. But both will be a function of time, money, experience(lots of experience). Gotta remember I too have sculpted a 95 batmobile from scratch, and have built these costumes so I can talk from experience. When it comes to engines, we both live in the det. area, and we have tons of resources for engines, etc.. I live close to Lane automotive, etc.. U.S. martin dragway. etc.. zillions of folks around here to do all the mechanical stuff. Bob C's right about the Steve W. prices. If you want I can hook you up and you can talk to him, and ask him what you will get for a given price. Trust me when I say he will lay it on you 3 times more intensly than I am right now. See for yourself if my workmanship gives me the right to rant like this. I want to see the workmanship. The quality of the sculpt(scratch free surface), the quality of the molds(are they light weight, are they ridgid, do all the parts key nicely, do they come off the car easily? Do your statues look real, or fake? does your foam look like it's from another world, or full of holes? Does the sculpture look like the piece you are copying from photos? I only talk the talk because I truely believe I have walked the walk. |
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From: youngbat
| Posted: 9/21/2005 11:58:24 AM
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Posts: 150 |
RE: If yer gona have a batmobile, ya gottsa have a suit another example of a good bodycast. I can pick this up and move it at will. it's balanced, and does not need to be nailed to the floor. You can see kneecaps, elbows, and I never ever use smooth-on stuff. (it's about skill) You also need to be able to have room to step back and look at it from the long shot. When it comes to sculpting there is the long shot, then the up-close details and quality. 
I have many, many copies of this bodycast. without them the project would be such a pain. specialty costumes don't take up much space you say. Next: pictures of the scratch built 95 car. Then on to the tumbler. All scratch built. |
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From: youngbat
| Posted: 9/21/2005 1:06:33 PM
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Posts: 150 |
RE: If yer gona have a batmobile, ya gottsa have a suit Here is a current PROGRESS shot of the 95 fin (right side) that Bob C is sculpting. 
so you can see we do this from scratch. This is a good thread because it has some substance to it. No pics of chicks or silly stuff. Flame fights are bad, but a little tension is good. Not enough tension and the chat board becomes fluf. Just a lot of jibber jabber. I personly would like to see more pics of peoples work. I would like to see how you are pushing the envelope, or what you would like to do to push the envelope. Here is a picture of a foam latex panther suit I did using a home-made oven, and six tiny sunbeam mixmaster mixers. This was eons ago. As you can see I did it, but what a headache. Not a good way to go. it's like this: you want to jack up your car. You have this flimsy little jack, and you wonder if thing is gona collapse or if you can even get it up. so now you goto a industrial strength racecar jack, and WOW, you woundered what in the hell were you thinking. The car is lifted like a tinker toy, the safety is insured, you spent money, but boy was it worth it. 
also none, and I mean NONE of the parts of this costume were made by anyone but myself. i.e. NO components were bought. |
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From: Baneful
| Posted: 9/21/2005 2:00:13 PM
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Posts: 157 |
RE: If yer gona have a batmobile, ya gottsa have a suit really impressive stuff 
I would have removed the nipples though 
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From: youngbat
| Posted: 9/21/2005 2:10:56 PM
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Posts: 150 |
RE: If yer gona have a batmobile, ya gottsa have a suit Here's a REAL old shot. this was done back in 94'. prior to the release of Batman forever. No nipples here. You have to realize that back in 95' had you NOT had the nipples it would have been considered a goof. Batman forever was hugely succesful, and the whole anti-schmacher thing did not build steam until after B+R. Also this is a bodycast. See the details? not done with alginate, or med grade silicone. Old school way. There are times when the results are not merly a function of money. You have to know when they are, and when they are not. You have to weigh out doing this, v.s. doing that, and you ALWAYS have to think out of the box. Just pulled a KILLER Begins torso from that wonderful industrial oven just minutes ago. check it out. over 10 yrs ago. the guitars in the background were projects as well. 
Anyone regognize this pose?? Hint. the finished piece ended up being re-casted GLOBALLY. Some of you even know several people who have re-casted this piece. The guy in the clay is me. |
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From: youngbat
| Posted: 9/21/2005 2:32:50 PM
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Posts: 150 |
RE: If yer gona have a batmobile, ya gottsa have a suit I also stitched my own gloves from scratch. 
and boots as well. my latest. 
You can see how equipped I am for doing a leather interior on a car. Bob's showroom was made by himself alone, from scratch. He did most of the work on C. Reeve. All of the silicone skins are done by Bob C. alone, and the hair is done by his wife Andrea. We have been working together roughly 6 yrs. Passion is what drives us mostly. We have to stick to characters that we are really into for this reason. This kind of stuff is never about money really. I would say we are extreme type "A" personalities. We are short fused, we have a low tolorence for anything but 150percent. Let me illustrate: lets say I hired you to do a bodycast on a major project. You tell me you got the first pull done. I say "great" can't wait to see it. I come over and I see this weird form that came from you wrapping the guy in saran wrap. I now fire you on the spot. Car example: body must have the same quality of the begins torso above. Must have ability to manage complex curves, If this is all done by hand. Rapid prototyping machines are great, but the surface must be checked and EXTREMELY perfect. Tooling must be light weight, rigid, and have no distortion from the front to the back. No bridging on finished pieces, no putty fills, body parts must be made structualy ridgid from all directions. This means an edge will be going inside the car and you won't see it from the outside. This also translates to a lot more work. in theses pictures, we have used no crew, it's just Bob C. and I, and his wife who does the hair. |
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From: Kevin
| Posted: 9/21/2005 2:33:36 PM
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Nodeman
Posts: 906 |
RE: If yer gona have a batmobile, ya gottsa have a suit I was going to say my years salery, I was damm close. $$$$ |
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