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How the heck does the "Tumbler" steer? |
From: batfan217
| Posted: 7/12/2005 5:04:41 PM
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Posts: 8
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How the heck does the "Tumbler" steer?
Hello all,
First off, I apologize...this is probably way too technical, but it is bugging me and I can't find an answer anywhere else on the internet.
Ok, I'm a long time lurker, first time poster. I love this site and message board. There is some really awesome stuff here! A little background, I've always been a fan of the '66 and '89 cars, but admit my recent interest in building a replica has piqued due to the new movie coming out. Like some of you, I didn't really like the "tumbler" design when I first saw it, but it has really grown on me after seeing it in the context of the movie. So much so that I am actually considering building a scaled down version...(golf cart size) for myself and my four year old to cruise around in.
The one part that is really baffling me is the front suspension, or more specifically, the "steering" mechanism. Granted for the scale I'm thinking of working in, I can rig up a somewhat conventional tie rod setup, as accuracy isn't absolutely critical, but I'd really like to know how the "real car" does it and would rather duplicate that look, if possible.
I've analyzed all the pictures I can find of the front suspension. My best guess are some pretty beefy reversed mounted hubs/spindles, with "somewhat" vertically mounted tie rod end/steering arms connected to a multi-universal jointed track rod connecting the right and left wheels. Do the wheels steer like a conventional car or do they simply "tilt" as some of the pictures seem to indicate? It must have a terrible turning radius if that is the case! Does the "real car" even have front brakes? I don't see any conventional brake rotors in all the pictures I've seen, but some pictures look like there are stainless steel brake lines going to the hub. Does it use some kind of hub brake system??
I was hoping that any of the builders out there that have actually built their chasis could help shed some light on how they handled this, or point me in the direction of some more detailed drawings of the suspension. Thanks, and keep those build pictures coming!
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From: Jack
| Posted: 7/12/2005 6:32:05 PM
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Gothic Avenger
Posts: 1947
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RE: How the heck does the
The steering and brakes look like the front axle from a 4WD. Looks to me like they simply cut the axle tubes, reveresed the set-up, welded it to some square tubing and then figured out how to reconnect the steering. The up/down travel point is at the rear of the square tubing. That's what it looks like to me.
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From: Kevin
| Posted: 7/12/2005 7:53:49 PM
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Nodeman
Posts: 906
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RE: How the heck does the
The car has dual hydraulic actuators on each arm that controls the steering.
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From: Jack
| Posted: 7/13/2005 7:55:35 AM
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Gothic Avenger
Posts: 1947
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RE: How the heck does the
Nope!
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From: batfan217
| Posted: 7/13/2005 8:46:32 AM
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Posts: 8
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RE: How the heck does the
Thanks for the info guys. I hadn't considered using hydraulic actuators, but that would solve 2 of the issues I have concerns about. One, keeping the wheels in synch with each other while turning, and two, mounting a "mechanical" steering linkage on a "moving" suspension arm. Did you go with conventional disk brakes? Thanks again for the input.
Steve
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From: Kevin
| Posted: 7/13/2005 10:06:42 AM
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Nodeman
Posts: 906
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RE: How the heck does the
A friend is building the car not me. He used conventional disk brakes on the front end. He had access to a real car and told me that there were two actuators on each arm. He said that there were no mechanical linkage on the trailing arms.
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From: batfan217
| Posted: 7/13/2005 11:01:08 AM
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BatFan217
Posts: 8
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RE: How the heck does the
Nodeman- thanks for clearing that up. For anyone interested, here is the most detailed picture I've found of the suspension. I know it probably isn't all that interesting to most of you, I was just really curious how this thing works.
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From: batfan217
| Posted: 7/13/2005 11:03:53 AM
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BatFan217
Posts: 8
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RE: How the heck does the
Oops, sorry here is the link to the image.
http://www.chickslovethecar.com/images/uploaded/713200511050TumplerSteeringDetail.JPG
Steve
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From: Jack
| Posted: 7/13/2005 7:21:12 PM
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Gothic Avenger
Posts: 1947
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RE: How the heck does the
Here is the picture from batfan217.
Here are a few more close ups.
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From: Webmaster
| Posted: 7/13/2005 7:24:23 PM
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Need Life
Posts: 1517
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RE: How the heck does the
Wow I never seen those before.
Stop holding out on pics, Jack!
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From: Jack
| Posted: 7/13/2005 7:24:56 PM
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Gothic Avenger
Posts: 1947
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RE: How the heck does the
He had access to a real car and told me that there were two actuators on each arm. He said that there were no mechanical linkage on the trailing arms.
So Kevin, why doesn't your friend share some pictures of the Tumbler he had access to? I know the whole Troll issue, right? It seems to me that less and less people are willing to share their pictures. Oh well.
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From: Kevin
| Posted: 7/13/2005 8:13:10 PM
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Nodeman
Posts: 906
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RE: How the heck does the
Jack, when he had access to the car it was a spur of the moment thing and didn't have a camera at the time. But I could be wrong, I need to contact him and ask to be sure.
The troll caused a big firestorm with WB; he was contacted by WB and had to do a lot of explaining what he was up to. They were under the impression that he was going to build and sell these cars, which he said that this was his only car of this model and it wasn't for sale.
The individual that caused the problem had it backlash back at him now he is in deep water with WB.
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From: Webmaster
| Posted: 7/13/2005 8:17:52 PM
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Need Life
Posts: 1517
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RE: How the heck does the
Where's Tim?
He's a tumbler owner! He can shed few lights!
Last Edited by Webmaster: 7/13/2005 10:15:06 PM
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From: batfan217
| Posted: 7/13/2005 9:22:23 PM
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BatFan217
Posts: 8
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RE: How the heck does the
Gothic Avenger/Jack- Those are awesome pictures. They definitely are clearing up the mystery for me. Thanks for posting them. Did you see the car first hand and take those pictures? I'd loved to see more of them in that detail if you have them.
Steve
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From: Jack
| Posted: 7/13/2005 9:38:49 PM
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Gothic Avenger
Posts: 1947
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RE: How the heck does the
Steve, no I've never seen the car first hand, those are just pictures from the Internet that I cropped to get a better view of the steering.
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From: youngbat
| Posted: 7/14/2005 1:56:09 AM
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Posts: 150
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RE: How the heck does the
now ya got me curious. I have to ask, who, or what is the "troll"? Is this something that all builders/owners of batmobiles should worry about?
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From: Webmaster
| Posted: 7/14/2005 2:00:19 AM
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Need Life
Posts: 1517
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RE: How the heck does the
Bob, you only have to worry about Trolls if you're Justin or Kevin.
They should be able to shed lights on the subject.
PM them for more info.
I couldn't dig up the old posts b/c I erased their posts after it got out of hands.
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From: MARK TOWLE
| Posted: 7/14/2005 2:29:44 AM
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Mach 5
Posts: 246
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RE: How the heck does the
I THOUGHT IT WAS HYDRO. AT FIRST UNTIL I SAW THESE PICTS .....FROM THE LOOKS OF IT IT IS MECH. THE STEERING ROD (GOLD) ON EACH SPINDLE IS CONNECTED TO A HYME JOINT THEN TO A CAM LEVER CONNECTED TO A SPLINED ROD THAT RETURNS BACK TOWARDS THE DRIVER THROUGH A BEARING HOUSING PROBABLY TO A CONECTOR HUB THAT TIES THEM TOGETHER VIA HALF SHAFTS TO THE STEERING BOX (LIKE AN INDY CAR) ....SIMPLY FASTINATING ..ALL WAYS WITH REVERSE
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From: Webmaster
| Posted: 7/14/2005 2:40:18 AM
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Need Life
Posts: 1517
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RE: How the heck does the
Mark T,
Are you resting your alcohol bottle on the keyboard?
Is that why you are always writing in caps b/c the bottle is pushing the caps lock key?
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From: MARK TOWLE
| Posted: 7/14/2005 3:19:26 AM
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Mach 5
Posts: 246
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RE: How the heck does the
ALLWAYS HAVE ALLWAYS WILL.LOL..ITS TO MUCH TROUBLE TO USE SO MANY KEYS AND BUTTONS HELL I DIDNT EVEN FINISH HIGH SCHOOL NOW YOU WANT ME TO LEARN HOW TO USE THIS FREEKING THING TOO...........LORD WHATS NEXT CUT MY HAIR QUIT DRINKING YEEESH......... RIGHT BACK AT YA
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From: Webmaster
| Posted: 7/16/2005 3:28:42 AM
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Need Life
Posts: 1517
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RE: How the heck does the
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From: Webmaster
| Posted: 7/16/2005 3:32:27 AM
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Need Life
Posts: 1517
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RE: How the heck does the
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From: Nitro
| Posted: 7/16/2005 7:35:04 AM
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G A WANNA-BE
Posts: 741
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RE: How the heck does the
Man that must be an old photo, look how cheap gas is.
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From: Justin
| Posted: 7/16/2005 3:46:49 PM
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Head Lemming
Posts: 1355
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RE: How the heck does the
Bob - the trolls are the guys who keep this industry exciting! Without them we all might just get along, and wouldn't that just suck?? They seem to have developed a strong desire to protect you all from me, and Kevin, and at times, Don Currie. It all depends on their mood. There are actually only about 3 of them that I can immediately think of... But BOY do they get around!
------------------------
You should see my OTHER car. Its a scooter.
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From: Webmaster
| Posted: 7/19/2005 11:23:41 PM
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Need Life
Posts: 1517
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RE: How the heck does the
Another tumbler gallery for those who are still into the dark side of the force
http://www.planetzone.nl/index.php?subject=gallery&gallery=batmobile
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