Vertigo's Tumbler Build
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Posted 9/20/2017 7:57:24 PM


Supreme Being

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Last Login: 2/1/2024 7:08:20 PM
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Nice, scholarly information. I'm going to start calling you Professor. hehehe
Post #159493
Posted 9/25/2017 11:25:38 PM
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The real Dr Fox .
Post #159503
Posted 9/26/2017 6:31:20 PM
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Building Positional Welding Jigs to Improve Your Bat Vehicle Fabrications

When building without a jig, one relies on a tape measure, clamps,
eyeballs, levels, and shims; great results can be achieved this way,
but it requires skill and patience. With a jig, the parts in a
fabrication are held rigidly in the correct location. If everything is
cut to the right size, assembly simply becomes a game of putting
everything in the jig and welding it together. The benefits for any
fabrication in volume should be obvious.

But, even in one-off Bat Vehicle fabrications, positional welding jigs
can provide advantages that more than make up for the time spent
building them.

Most all positional welding jigs are used hold two or more parts in a
combined rigid position for welding.

Positional welding Jigs are not particularly difficult to construct
and vary from very simple (a few minutes to build) to very complex
(many hours to build).

Jigs aren't necessarily the solution to every Bat Vehicle fabrication
problem, but they are an under-appreciated approach that should be a
mainstay in the tool kit of more DIY builders.

A master welder when welding is rarely found holding anything but his
electrode holder (arc) or wire feed gun in one hand (mig) while
steading it with the other hand! If it isn’t clamped or jigged up he
usually does not weld it. I try to do my welding by these words.

(Note: My Tumbler front arms, axles, and brackets were positioned and
welded with several jigs to a relational accuracy of around 0.010.
Without using positional holding jigs and tactical welding techniques
I could never have obtained such accuracy.)


  Post Attachments 
JIG-5 (1).jpg (21 views, 79.79 KB)
JIG.jpg (18 views, 108.66 KB)
JIG-2.jpg (16 views, 144.61 KB)
Post #159507
Posted 9/26/2017 6:55:12 PM
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whats the plan for measuring the unsprung weight for the coilover spring rates? I ended up having to redo my coilover springs due to a lil miscalculation but no big deal, a couple new springs on and good to go
Post #159512
Posted 9/27/2017 6:42:15 PM


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Great info on the use of jigs.
Post #159523
Posted 9/27/2017 7:07:03 PM
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I place a copy of this post here for the potential benefit to anyone
planning to and/or actually building a Bat Vehicle.

Building Burn out Proxy Positional Welding Jigs to Improve Your Bat
Vehicle Fabrications also known as the Skin and Burn method.

I am currently thinking about using it in my DOJ Batmobile build.

Here is how the Proxy Positional Welding Jig / SKIN and BURN would
work on the DOJ body.

Build the body and other pieces in wood, cardboard, or foam.

Wood proxy positional welding jig method

Cut steel pieces, fit to wood body, and secure with adhesive. Repeat
procedure until all translated metal pieces are attached.

Then use a MIG welder with a dwell timer set to 1/4 to 1/2 second on
high heat to tact weld the panels in place.

The wood is then burned out slowly or cut away inside in pieces. I
probably would cut away the wood so I could weld inside as I cut away
the wood pieces.

Foam proxy positional welding jig method

Cut steel pieces, fit to foam body, and secure with adhesive. Repeat
procedure until all translated metal pieces are attached. Then use a
MIG welder with a dwell timer set to 1/4 to 1/2 second on high heat.
Tactical welding techniques must be used to avoid distortion effects.
The foam is then dissolved with solvent, but could be burned out
slowly or cut away inside in pieces. I probably would use solvent.

I figure if I modified my 4’ x 4’ CNC plasma table by replacing the
arc height control with a deep Z axis I could mill the DOJ from 3’ x
3’ x 18” blocks from cheap grade foam. Then coat it with a sealer and
several coats of reinforced high-temperature furnace cement to
increase the thermo-resistance to the high heat ¼ to ½ second dwell
timed MIG welding.

Estimated cost: 2000.oo for foam, sealer, furnace cement, and milling
bits. Does not include price of steel panels. vertigo


  Post Attachments 
JIG-3.jpg (19 views, 361.13 KB)
JIG-4.jpg (20 views, 87.11 KB)
Post #159526
Posted 9/28/2017 7:21:46 PM
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Last Login: 12/4/2023 11:08:55 PM
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I place a copy of this post here for the potential benefit to anyone
planning to and/or actually building a Bat Vehicle.

MaineBat

“whats the plan for measuring the unsprung weight for the coilover
spring rates? I ended up having to redo my coilover springs due to a
lil miscalculation but no big deal, a couple new springs on and good
to go.”

Hey MaineBat,

Glad to have your participation on the forum.

What was the vehicle and what was your “lil miscalculation”?

In a ground vehicle with a suspension, the unsprung mass (unsprung
weight) is the weight of the suspension, wheels, tires, axle(s),
springs, shock absorbers, suspension links, a portion of the
driveshaft weight, and other components directly connected to them,
rather than supported by the suspension.

The sprung mass (sprung weight) is the body and other components
supported by the suspension.

I have a log book that I recorded the weights of the unsprung elements
in as I have progressed on my Tumbler build.

When I am close to finishing my Tumbler I will either take the vehicle
to a weigh station or rent a set of vehicle scales.

Total Tumbler Weight – unsprung weight = total sprung weight.

I can use my log book of component weights to determine the actual
unsprung weight at each wheel and front/rear totals.

I was told that there are also hydraulic proxy shocks with scales and
pressure gauges that can be used to determine compression travel and
spring rates. (I have not researched these yet but will when I am
close to ready for shocks/springs, etc.) May be easier and cheaper to
just take my Tumbler to a professional chassis shop and have them
install the coil springs and shocks since they will have the measuring
tools to determine the correct components.

Here is some instructions from a chassis shop:

How to determine spring rate

Determining Travel:

It is recommended that there be approximately 3" of compression travel
available (including the bumpstop). This means the chassis must be
supported by a spring rate that will allow the chassis to be supported
3" upward from the bottoming position

Determining the Vehicle Sprung Weight:

Establish front and rear weight of the vehicle. Establish unsprung
weight. This is the weight not supported by the springs. i.e., tires,
wheels, wheelie bars, brakes, and 1/2 of the weight of the shock,
spring, driveline, and ladder bar or four link. 1/2 the weight is used
for some components because their weights are equally shared between
sprung and unsprung weight. Determine spring weight, that is the
weight of the vehicle less the unsprung weight.

Determining Spring Rate:

Divide the rear sprung weight by 2 to determine the load for each rear
corner. Divide the front sprung weight by 2 to determine the load for
each front corner. If the load for the rear corners is 330 lbs.
each(660 lbs./2 = 330 lbs.) then divide the 330 lbs. by the
compression travel needed and you arrive at the base spring rate of
110 lbs. per inch. Ex: 330 lbs./3" compression travel = 110 lbs.
spring rate.
Post #159536
Posted 9/28/2017 8:00:56 PM
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Last Login: 12/4/2023 11:08:55 PM
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A month, or so, back I bought 5 used dually steel wheels at a car parts junk yard after spending a day sorting through the used steel wheels at several. One of the workers told me they came off a 1981 2-1/2 ton delivery van but he did not know the make or model. These are very heavy duty steel wheels stamped out of 1/4" plate steel. To be 36-years old and to probably have traveled many thousands of miles all of them were in excellent shape other than a little rust and a few scratches. Used an acetylene torch to cut the centers from these wheels and then trimmed and ground them to fit some new 12 inch wide single wheel 16.5 heavy duty truck rims. Once I get all 4 wheels to this stage I will begin more detailed fitting and accuracy alignments. There are a number of concentricity and angular alignments that must be correct before welding can begin. vertigo


  Post Attachments 
PICT0002 (27).JPG (32 views, 341.36 KB)
PICT0003 (26).JPG (27 views, 317.23 KB)
Post #159541
Posted 9/29/2017 4:15:29 PM


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I was just talking to someone about how to do the rear wheels. This is a good idea it should work well
Post #159545
Posted 9/29/2017 6:27:38 PM
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Thanks, hope it works well for you.
Finished cutting and preliminary fitting today for all four wheels.
vertigo
Post #159549
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