UNIVERSAL BAT VEHICLE: WELDING, TOOL MAKING, AND SPECIAL TECHNIQUES
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UNIVERSAL BAT VEHICLE: WELDING, TOOL MAKING,... Expand / Collapse
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Posted 9/17/2017 6:30:30 PM
Has NO LIFE!!

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Last Login: 12/4/2023 11:08:55 PM
Posts: 3,232, Visits: 5,166
Proxy Shocks,

Built this pair of proxy shocks to stand in for the real shocks until
my Tumbler is mostly finished. Otherwise, given the non-predictability
of the finished vehicle weight, it would be impossible to get the rear
coil over shocks right.

Cut the two main lengths from a piece of old oil field drill stem I
had laying around and the four end disks from scrap 3/8” steel plate.
After rough welding these to the ends of the main lengths I welded on
some eye bolts. Then I painted them since I will be looking at them
for quite some time while I complete the vehicle.

I have placed a copy of this post here because the concept of using
proxy shocks to stand in for the actual shocks is applicable to any
Bat Vehicle build that uses shocks and this information may be useful
to someone planning to or actually building a Bat Vehicle.


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Post #159460
Posted 9/17/2017 6:39:52 PM
Has NO LIFE!!

Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!


Last Login: 12/4/2023 11:08:55 PM
Posts: 3,232, Visits: 5,166
Installed proxy shocks on my Tumbler today. Proxy shocks similar to these could be used on any Bat Vehicle build. vertigo

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Post #159464
Posted 9/20/2017 6:53:48 PM
Has NO LIFE!!

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Last Login: 12/4/2023 11:08:55 PM
Posts: 3,232, Visits: 5,166
I placed a copy of this post here for the benefit of anyone that might
be able to use this information in planning and/or building a Bat
Vehicle.

I received an email the other day stating, “I can’t weld and I have
never worked with metal. I have worked in the past a little with wood
in junior high shop class. How could I ever be able to build a
Tumbler?”  This is a good question that opens the door to the building
concept of TRANSLATION.

TRANSLATION

The conversion from one form or medium into another. The process of
moving, something from one place to another. In this case we are
talking about the movement of information.

If one builds a Bat Vehicle in wood they have stored a vast amount of
spatial and conceptual information in the wood parts. The wood parts
will contain the summaries of evolutionary eclectic mechanical problem
solving, relational connectivity, multi-dimensional shape boundaries,
and other representational information. (parts with three dimensional
measurements and their relationships with other three dimensional
parts.)

TRANSLATION occurs when we convert or copy the information held in the
wood parts to some other media such as metal, fiberglass, or other
material.

So, someone that builds a Bat Vehicle in wood, but who, has no skills
in metal or fiberglass can hire others that do, to do their
translations into metal or fiberglass.  vertigo
Post #159487
Posted 9/26/2017 6:29:27 PM
Has NO LIFE!!

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Last Login: 12/4/2023 11:08:55 PM
Posts: 3,232, Visits: 5,166
I place a copy of this post here for the potential benefit to anyone
planning to and/or actually building a Bat Vehicle.

Building Positional Welding Jigs to Improve Your Bat Vehicle Fabrications

When building without a jig, one relies on a tape measure, clamps,
eyeballs, levels, and shims; great results can be achieved this way,
but it requires skill and patience. With a jig, the parts in a
fabrication are held rigidly in the correct location. If everything is
cut to the right size, assembly simply becomes a game of putting
everything in the jig and welding it together. The benefits for any
fabrication in volume should be obvious.

But, even in one-off Bat Vehicle fabrications, positional welding jigs
can provide advantages that more than make up for the time spent
building them.

Most all positional welding jigs are used hold two or more parts in a
combined rigid position for welding.

Positional welding Jigs are not particularly difficult to construct
and vary from very simple (a few minutes to build) to very complex
(many hours to build).

Jigs aren't necessarily the solution to every Bat Vehicle fabrication
problem, but they are an under-appreciated approach that should be a
mainstay in the tool kit of more DIY builders.

A master welder when welding is rarely found holding anything but his
electrode holder (arc) or wire feed gun in one hand (mig) while
steading it with the other hand! If it isn’t clamped or jigged up he
usually does not weld it. I try to do my welding by these words.

(Note: My Tumbler front arms, axles, and brackets were positioned and
welded with several jigs to a relational accuracy of around 0.010.
Without using positional holding jigs and tactical welding techniques
I could never have obtained such accuracy.)


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Post #159506
Posted 9/27/2017 7:04:33 PM
Has NO LIFE!!

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Last Login: 12/4/2023 11:08:55 PM
Posts: 3,232, Visits: 5,166
I place a copy of this post here for the potential benefit to anyone
planning to and/or actually building a Bat Vehicle.

Building Burn out Proxy Positional Welding Jigs to Improve Your Bat
Vehicle Fabrications also known as the Skin and Burn method.

I am currently thinking about using it in my DOJ Batmobile build.

Here is how the Proxy Positional Welding Jig / SKIN and BURN would
work on the DOJ body.

Build the body and other pieces in wood, cardboard, or foam.

Wood proxy positional welding jig method

Cut steel pieces, fit to wood body, and secure with adhesive. Repeat
procedure until all translated metal pieces are attached.

Then use a MIG welder with a dwell timer set to 1/4 to 1/2 second on
high heat to tact weld the panels in place.

The wood is then burned out slowly or cut away inside in pieces. I
probably would cut away the wood so I could weld inside as I cut away
the wood pieces.

Foam proxy positional welding jig method

Cut steel pieces, fit to foam body, and secure with adhesive. Repeat
procedure until all translated metal pieces are attached. Then use a
MIG welder with a dwell timer set to 1/4 to 1/2 second on high heat.
Tactical welding techniques must be used to avoid distortion effects.
The foam is then dissolved with solvent, but could be burned out
slowly or cut away inside in pieces. I probably would use solvent.

I figure if I modified my 4’ x 4’ CNC plasma table by replacing the
arc height control with a deep Z axis I could mill the DOJ from 3’ x
3’ x 18” blocks from cheap grade foam. Then coat it with a sealer and
several coats of reinforced high-temperature furnace cement to
increase the thermo-resistance to the high heat ¼ to ½ second dwell
timed MIG welding.

Estimated cost: 2000.oo for foam, sealer, furnace cement, and milling
bits. Does not include price of steel panels. vertigo


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Post #159524
Posted 9/28/2017 7:20:12 PM
Has NO LIFE!!

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Last Login: 12/4/2023 11:08:55 PM
Posts: 3,232, Visits: 5,166
I place a copy of this post here for the potential benefit to anyone
planning to and/or actually building a Bat Vehicle.

MaineBat

“whats the plan for measuring the unsprung weight for the coilover
spring rates? I ended up having to redo my coilover springs due to a
lil miscalculation but no big deal, a couple new springs on and good
to go.”

Hey MaineBat,

Glad to have your participation on the forum.

What was the vehicle and what was your “lil miscalculation”?

In a ground vehicle with a suspension, the unsprung mass (unsprung
weight) is the weight of the suspension, wheels, tires, axle(s),
springs, shock absorbers, suspension links, a portion of the
driveshaft weight, and other components directly connected to them,
rather than supported by the suspension.

The sprung mass (sprung weight) is the body and other components
supported by the suspension.

I have a log book that I recorded the weights of the unsprung elements
in as I have progressed on my Tumbler build.

When I am close to finishing my Tumbler I will either take the vehicle
to a weigh station or rent a set of vehicle scales.

Total Tumbler Weight – unsprung weight = total sprung weight.

I can use my log book of component weights to determine the actual
unsprung weight at each wheel and front/rear totals.

I was told that there are also hydraulic proxy shocks with scales and
pressure gauges that can be used to determine compression travel and
spring rates. (I have not researched these yet but will when I am
close to ready for shocks/springs, etc.) May be easier and cheaper to
just take my Tumbler to a professional chassis shop and have them
install the coil springs and shocks since they will have the measuring
tools to determine the correct components.

Here is some instructions from a chassis shop:

How to determine spring rate

Determining Travel:

It is recommended that there be approximately 3" of compression travel
available (including the bumpstop). This means the chassis must be
supported by a spring rate that will allow the chassis to be supported
3" upward from the bottoming position

Determining the Vehicle Sprung Weight:

Establish front and rear weight of the vehicle. Establish unsprung
weight. This is the weight not supported by the springs. i.e., tires,
wheels, wheelie bars, brakes, and 1/2 of the weight of the shock,
spring, driveline, and ladder bar or four link. 1/2 the weight is used
for some components because their weights are equally shared between
sprung and unsprung weight. Determine spring weight, that is the
weight of the vehicle less the unsprung weight.

Determining Spring Rate:

Divide the rear sprung weight by 2 to determine the load for each rear
corner. Divide the front sprung weight by 2 to determine the load for
each front corner. If the load for the rear corners is 330 lbs.
each(660 lbs./2 = 330 lbs.) then divide the 330 lbs. by the
compression travel needed and you arrive at the base spring rate of
110 lbs. per inch. Ex: 330 lbs./3" compression travel = 110 lbs.
spring rate.
Post #159534
Posted 9/28/2017 7:58:23 PM
Has NO LIFE!!

Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!


Last Login: 12/4/2023 11:08:55 PM
Posts: 3,232, Visits: 5,166
I placed a copy of this post here because it might be of some use to someone planning to and/or actually building a Bat Vehicle.

A month, or so, back I bought 5 used dually steel wheels at a car parts junk yard after spending a day sorting through the used steel wheels at several. One of the workers told me they came off a 1981 2-1/2 ton delivery van but he did not know the make or model. These are very heavy duty steel wheels stamped out of 1/4" plate steel. To be 36-years old and to probably have traveled many thousands of miles all of them were in excellent shape other than a little rust and a few scratches. Used an acetylene torch to cut the centers from these wheels and then trimmed and ground them to fit some new 12 inch wide single wheel 16.5 heavy duty truck rims. Once I get all 4 wheels to this stage I will begin more detailed fitting and accuracy alignments. There are a number of concentricity and angular alignments that must be correct before welding can begin. vertigo


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Post #159539
Posted 10/2/2017 6:30:17 PM
Has NO LIFE!!

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Last Login: 12/4/2023 11:08:55 PM
Posts: 3,232, Visits: 5,166
I place a copy of this post here for the potential benefit to anyone
planning to and/or actually building a Bat Vehicle.

So, how do you get the best accuracy from your Positional Welding Jigs
to Improve Your Bat Vehicle Fabrications?

ELIMINATE AS MANY AS POSSIBLE SOURCES OF MOVEMENT AND PLAY

Build your positional welding jigs, rigid and strong, enough to
prevent them from being easily deflected by lines of applied force and
torque. (bending and twisting motion)

Secure your work pieces in your jig(s) with plenty of tight clamps,
bolts, hold downs, etc. Every piece that can be easily moved with the
fingers will be no match for the metal drawing forces of welding and
will surely move out of alignment if not heavily secured. Shaking,
tugging, and pulling on your mounted up jigged parts will usually
reveal any wobbly weaknesses. Use tack welds and tactical welding
techniques to balance welding induced lines of force.

When using tube and solid bar jigs to align part assemblies that have
some distance between them (like my Tumbler’s two separate front arm
and axle assemblies) all concentric wobble must be eliminated if you
need an accurate linear alignment.

I used oiled thin sheet metal wrapped around the solid bar enough so
that it took a light tapping with a hammer to ease it into the
alignment tube.

It takes a rigid strong jig, well secured parts free of movement
and play, and tactical welding to equalize the lines of drawing
(contracting) forces to produce high accuracy assemblies.   vertigo
Post #159575
Posted 10/7/2017 7:31:32 PM
Has NO LIFE!!

Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!


Last Login: 12/4/2023 11:08:55 PM
Posts: 3,232, Visits: 5,166
I placed a copy of this post here for the benefit of anyone that might
be able to use this information in planning and/or building a Bat
Vehicle.

A month, or so, back I bought 5 used dually steel wheels at a car parts junk yard after spending a day sorting through the used steel wheels at several. One of the workers told me they came off a 1981 2-1/2 ton delivery van but he did not know the make or model. These are very heavy duty steel wheels stamped out of 1/4" plate steel. To be 36-years old and to probably have traveled many thousands of miles all of them were in excellent shape other than a little rust and a few scratches. Used an acetylene torch to cut the centers from these wheels and then trimmed and ground them to fit some new 12 inch wide single wheel 16.5 heavy duty truck rims. Once I get all 4 wheels to this stage I will begin more detailed fitting and accuracy alignments. There are a number of concentricity and angular alignments that must be correct before welding can begin. vertigo

Finished detailed fitting and accuracy alignments. Worked out concentricity and angular alignments. Then clamped everything in place for each wheel. Satisfied, I used 180 degree opposed tact welds to divide the wheel radius by quarters. Then by eights and then by sixteenths. After completing all the tact welds and letting them all cool down to the touch I re-measured each wheel for measurement integrity. Finally, managed to find enough time to run one welding pass on each of the four wheels. vertigo


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Post #159616
Posted 10/8/2017 6:27:41 PM
Has NO LIFE!!

Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!


Last Login: 12/4/2023 11:08:55 PM
Posts: 3,232, Visits: 5,166
I placed a copy of this post here for the benefit of anyone that might
be able to use this information in planning and/or building a Bat
Vehicle.

The GM 14 bolt axle drum to disk brake conversion is quite easy to perform.
Remove the eight axle retaining bolts.
Then pull the axle out.


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Post #159621
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