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Posted 3/4/2014 11:31:26 AM
Has NO LIFE!!

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Last Login: 12/4/2023 11:08:55 PM
Posts: 3,232, Visits: 5,166
Hello Everyone,

How I am Analyzing my Photo Research for the Tumbler

Part One

 

RELEVANT ASPECTS FOR MEASURING FROM PHOTOGRAPHS

When we see a photograph on computer screen or on prints, we are looking at a 2-dimensional representation of a real 3-dimensional scene.

If a photographer is not consciously aware of what causes distorted photographic images they can and usually will produce unwanted distorted images. 3D is real. A 2D depiction of a 3D scene is just an illusion exploiting how our brain synthesizes information to determine the “depth” in real time.

Perspective

Perspective in photography can be defined as the sense of depth or spatial relationships between objects in the photo, along with their dimensions with respect to the viewpoint of the camera lens or the viewer.

Obstruction

When we see an object blocking the view of another object, the first object is nearer to the viewer than the latter. This clue to our brain regarding distance can be utilized in a photograph to depict the “depth” or distance between the objects also called overlap perspective. If this overlap is repeated in a same picture the viewer gets a sense of depth among various objects lying in a 3D reality through the perception of the relative distance of objects made by partial blocking and hiding.

Size

Our brain is very complex but gets fooled easily. We have a notion that when an object becomes more distant, it appears smaller than the one which is closer to the viewer.

Therefore, our brain makes an evaluation of the sizes based on “known” objects in relationship with other objects in the photo. Thus a distance is “imagined” in the brain and creates the “depth” in the photo that the photographer is looking for. This is also called “scaling” which helps the viewer to determine the actual size or relative size of the objects in the picture.

Linear Perspective

The human eye judges distance by the way lines and planes converge at an angle. This is known as linear perspective.

Vanishing Point

This is one of the tricky areas of photography which if a photographer is not consciously aware of, can produce unwanted distortions.

 

This when expanded to the rectangular objects, you find that some of the lens (fish-eye and panoramic) produces objects at the sides much smaller than it actually is and the objects at the center much larger that it’s actual size. Geometrically all straight horizontal lines at the lens axis level are represented as straight lines, and all other straight horizontal lines either above or below the lens axis level are reproduced as curved lines. But with “rectilinear perspective” the straight lines in the subject are reproduced straight in the picture (normal lenses are rectilinear lenses) which is the way we see things normally. Thus, the fish-eye and panoramic lenses produce “false” perspectives.

So back to linear perspective. Lines that are parallel to each other when seen at a great distance gives us the sensation of meeting (at vanishing points) for example in rail tracks. This “converging parallel lines” illusion can be used to show “distance” or depth in the photo.

We are accustomed to our eyes not being able to figure out objects in the distant far off (due to lowering of contrast or scattering of light or both). Photographer, willingly or accidentally use this information to “create” the effect of lack of sharpness/contrast by controlling the depth of field.

hint: If you focus your lens slightly shorter than infinity so that the farthest object looks blurred this will give the viewer(s) a sense of distance.

Also atmospheric conditions like haze/fog/dust can cause loss of image sharpness at a distant. Since the effect of this “haze” (scattering of light due to particles in the air) is proportional to the distance of the objects from the lens, photographers can use this information as well in composing the shot.

Of course, there are various different factors that contribute to varying atmospheric conditions but the result effect of reduction of contrast, brightness and saturation can make our eyes believe that we are looking at something really distant compared to the objects that are clear, sharp and vibrant color. Now that I have covered the basics we will move on in part two. vertigo

Post #92553
Posted 3/5/2014 12:54:13 PM
Has NO LIFE!!

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Last Login: 12/4/2023 11:08:55 PM
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Hello Everyone,

I chose and purchased a Dana 60 rear axle for my Tumbler. I was looking through some of the information I had collected on axle and drive-trains and came accross a summary of axle comparisons and strength ratings. Though the list might be of benifit to others who are planning a build.

WEAKEST TO STRONGEST AXLES

From an article I found on custom off-road building.

23. Chevy 10-bolt
Much like the Dana 35, it has a very weak and flexible housing that can lead to other problems. An abused Gov-loc is a death warrant for the 10-bolt rearend. It's not a swap-worthy, full-width axle for Jeeps.

22. '06-and-earlier Wrangler Dana 44
The smallish axletubes (same as Dana 35) can flex and cause carrier bearing and other failures if abused. It has lots of aftermarket support but limited available ratios if you are using the stock Rubicon differential.

21. GM 12-bolt
Similar to the GM 10-bolt. It has a flexible housing and weak tubes for a full-width axle. It's not really a good 4x4 axle worth swapping into a Jeep.

20. Toyota 8-inch
Overall, it's a stout axle for its compact size. It actually makes an OK Jeep swap, but is often frowned upon for being an import part. The Toyota 8-inch has lots of aftermarket support.

19. Alum Dana 44 (ZJ)
It's a decent, relatively durable axle, but there isn't much aftermarket support because it's fairly uncommon.

18. Chrysler 8.25
It's a decent axle when mated with moderate-sized tires, however, few gear ratios are available. It doesn't have much aftermarket support.

17. Ford 8.8 (Ranger and Explorer)
Some versions have weaker 28-spline shafts. The '91-'01 Explorer 31-spline version is preferred ('95-and-later have disc brakes). There's a lot of aftermarket support for the 8.8, but the C-clip shafts are a notable weakness. Commonly swapped into Wranglers in place of the Dana 35, although the marginal gain in strength hardly seems worth the effort.

16. Toyota Land Cruiser
They're getting harder to find, but they're still usable for a Jeep in need of an offset rearend, albeit an expensive oddball possibility with C-clips. An offset Dana 44 from a Quadra-Trac FSJ would be a better option.

15. Ford 8.8 (fullsize version)
All have 31-spline shafts and undesirable C-clips retaining the axles. Not a particularly good full-width axle for a Jeep swap.

14. Dana 44 (non-Wrangler)
Much like the Dana 44 front axle, the 44 rearend enjoys a lot of aftermarket support in the form of optional ratios, floater kits, and aftermarket differentials for more traction. Some early models are plagued with small bend-prone axletubes, weak coarse-spline shafts (as well as two-piece shafts), and coarse-spline pinions. Early '70-and-later Dana 44 rears are much more desirable. Look for 2 3/4-inch axletubes and 30-spline, one-piece shafts.

13. AMC 20 (FSJ)
The FSJ AMC 20 is stronger than the CJ version and perhaps about equal to the strength of a newer Dana 44. However, it doesn't enjoy as much aftermarket support as the Dana. Fewer gear ratios and lockers are available.

12. '07-and-later Wrangler (Rubicon only) Dana 44
It features stronger tubes than the axles in the previous model Wrangler and 32-spline shafts. It's sure to see plenty of aftermarket support, including complete assemblies available from Mopar.

11. Chrysler 9.25
It's only found in Dodge trucks and vans. Even though it's relatively strong, it's not all that great of a swap for a full-width axle. Very few ratios and aftermarket differentials are available for the 9.25. It's also a C-clip axle.

10. Ford 9-inch
It's the king of aftermarket components. The 9-inch came in Ford cars and trucks and can be found in many configurations, lug patterns, and widths; junkyard versions are becoming more difficult to find. Look for the stronger 31-spline versions over the weaker 28-spline. Most axles can be converted to stronger 31-, 33-, 35-, and even 40-spline shafts with bolt-on parts. Plenty of differentials are available and gear ratios ranging from 2.80:1 to 6.50:1 are easy to find. Complete aftermarket housings and entire assemblies are available.

9. Full-floating, 30-spline Dana 60
These are extremely common and can be easily found in junkyards under Dodges, Fords, GMs, and Jeeps alike. They are most often found under 3/4-ton vans and pickups, but a few came under Mopar musclecars. There is a lot of aftermarket support for the Dana 60.

8. Semifloating Dana 60
It's a little rare, but it can be found under early F-150s and early-'70s FSJ pickups. It features desirable 35-spline shafts and uses common Dana 60 gears and carriers, so a lot of aftermarket ratios and differentials are available.

7. Full-floating Ford 10.25
The ring gear is huge, but aftermarket support is not. The gear ratios and differential selection is limited. Heavy use will also cause the axletubes to break free and rotate inside the centersection. Not a great full-width swap.

6. Full-floating 35-spline Dana 60
They enjoy plenty of aftermarket support because they use common Dana 60 gears and carriers. However, they're very uncommon, and you're not likely to find one in a wrecking yard. Many 35-spline 60 rear axles have been converted from 30-spline housings.

5. Rockwell 2 1/2-ton
Rockwell rear axles are often two to three times less expensive than their frontend counterparts. The housing, gears, carrier, and bearings are extremely durable. The 16-spline axleshafts are not. Aftermarket shafts are available to bring it above Dana 80 strength. Only one gear ratio and few lockers are available. Due to size, 6.72:1 gearing, and weight, it's not a good axle for tires less than 44 inches tall.

4. Full-Floating GM 14-bolt
The 14-bolt is the king of cheap beef when running tires up to and more than 44 inches tall. You can't deny the strength of the 10 1/2-inch ring gear, huge 30-spline pinion, and 1 1/2-inch, 30-spline axleshafts. It also enjoys a decent number of aftermarket gear ratios and differentials. The fact that it has a removable pinion support and spanner adjustable backlash makes 14-bolt gear and differential swaps relatively easy. It can be found in GM 3/4- and 1-ton trucks and vans in a few different widths. It's often found in wrecking yards for less than $200 because it's so common. Perhaps its only real weakness is the thin tinfoil-like diff cover.

3. Full-floating Dana 70
The Dana 70 is another member of the cheap beef squad. However, there are several versions making them more difficult to identify. Look for the Dana 70U or 70HD. These feature desirable 1 1/2-inch, 35-spline shafts. There are also plenty of ratios and a good number of aftermarket differentials available for these versions of the 70 as well. They are often found in 1-ton Dodge, Ford, and GM trucks, vans, and even some tractors and heavy equipment.

2. Full-floating Dana 80
This is the step into medium-duty truck axles. The Dana 80 is more axle than most people will ever need. There are plenty of ratios available that range from 3.31:1 to 5.38:1 and a good number of aftermarket differentials.

1. Full-floating Dana 135
The Dana 135 is found in some Ford F-550 medium-duty trucks and motorhomes. It features a removable third member like a Toyota or Ford 9-inch. However, its size is more on par with an 18-wheeler rear axle. The massive size and heavy-duty design make it undesirable for all but the biggest-tired Jeep swaps.

 

The Dana 60 front axle may be the most coveted piece of off-road hardware in the industry. It earned its reputation because of its strength, the number of aftermarket parts available for it, and the fact that it has remained relatively unchanged over the last 30 years. Of course, even the mighty Dana 60 can benefit from an update every few decades-so in 2004 Ford and Dana released the new Dana Super 60 for use in F-450 and F-550 Super Duty trucks.

Referred to internally as the "Fat Boy", the Dana Super 60 evolved from the '78-'79 Dana 60 front axle first found under Ford F-250 and F-350 trucks. Keep in mind the original Dana 60 was designed for a 1-ton pickup with a 4,500-pound front gross axle weight rating (GAWR), 29 1/2-inch-tall tires, 4.10 axle gears, and engines that made less than 170 hp. The Dana Super 60 on the other hand was designed for Ford F-550 trucks with nearly twice the weight capacity, 33-inch tires, 5.38 axle gears, and more than 600 lb-ft of engine torque.

So why should you care? Well, the new Super 60 eliminates the weaknesses (if you can call them that) of the standard Dana 60 and gives axle swappers a beefier front axle option to handle the largest tires and most powerful engines. It also improves a vehicle's turning radius thanks to its larger U-joints and steering knuckles, which allow for a better steering angle.

When we first learned of the Super 60 we thought it would make a great upgrade for our '02 F-250 Super Duty, which had a habit of busting axleshafts and U-joints. Swapping in the Super 60 meant ditching the leaf springs and converting the 10-lug axle back to eight lugs with wheel bearings from an '05 F-350 and brake rotors from an '04 F-450.

Post #92569
Posted 3/9/2014 7:21:35 PM
Has NO LIFE!!

Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!


Last Login: 12/4/2023 11:08:55 PM
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Hello Everyone,

EXAMPLE OF PHOTO ANALYSIS:

(1) Write down what you want to know. (How long is the axle tubing?)

(2) Assess for distortions in photo. Note, there is always some distortion but very minimal in the sample photo I am using as an example.

(3) Scan and print out on copy paper. I do this so I can use colored high-lighters to mark out what I am trying to measure.

(4) Find a reference scale(s). This photo has two good ones. First, the axle tubing diameter 3-1/8 inches. The second, the width of the structural tubing that is 2-inches. Always convert fractions into inches and thousandths. 3-1/8 becomes 3.125"  and  2- inches becomes 2.000. Makes it a lot easier to multiple factor in extrapolation.

(5) Measure actual diameter of axle on photograph. In this case it is exactly 1-inch. So from this we can determine that 1-inch on the photograph equals 3.125" in reality. So our reference scale is 1:3.125".

(6) I now measure the axle tubing length on the photograph and find 2-1/4 (2.250).

(7) So, to find the real world length I multiply 2.250 X 3.125 and get 6.961 ", almost 7" long.

(8) So, can we say we have exactly 6.961 of axle tubing length. Maybe, but to have more confidence I will analyze 3-4 more photos and then compare them. Remember some distortion and error are always present.

(9) So, what tools do I use? A magnifying glass, a stand mounted magnifying glass with built in lighting. I got by with just a magnifying glass until just recently. A 6-inch and 12-inch steel ruler, colored high-lighters, pencils, and fine tip sharpi markers.

This is just how I do it. There are many other ways to analyze photos for dimension(s) and many other aspects. vertigo

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TUMBLER-FRONT END-001.jpg (72 views, 331.65 KB)

Post #92606
Posted 3/9/2014 7:42:30 PM
Has NO LIFE!!

Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!


Last Login: 12/4/2023 11:08:55 PM
Posts: 3,232, Visits: 5,166
Hello Everyone,

Finally, after analyzing a lot of photographs and making a few sets of life-size templates I felt confident enough to go with what I thought was the most correct and cut my steel (2.00 x 4.00 X .250 retangular steel tubing) to match my best fit templates.

  Post Attachments 
TUMBLER-FRONT END 003.jpg (86 views, 612.76 KB)

Post #92607
Posted 3/9/2014 7:56:13 PM
Has NO LIFE!!

Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!


Last Login: 12/4/2023 11:08:55 PM
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Hello Everyone,

Photo-analysis: Big Wave Dave sent me this on how he analyzes photos and gets his angles and proportions.

"Hey Vertigo, still figuring out angles and proportions the same way.  I've spent a little over 30 years drawing pool plans and design. I'm still amazed how close the human eye can see differences. In our business we can look at concrete and see the low areas verses the high areas. The key is to look and see where the pick was taken from. High low or eye level. Many times I can see angles of panels that appear to be similar like they are on the same plane. To me a lot of it is trial and error.

Oh I also use an angle finder very religiously. This is great to just get a feel for what your seeing.

Today I started out fiberglassing the rear intake seams. Also had to get the ends on the wings. The way I did it was to mask off the ends and put resin and fiberglass in the end. I then let gravity pull the resin down and self-level the end. Thanks for looking....BWD"

Post #92609
Posted 4/1/2014 12:43:24 PM
Has NO LIFE!!

Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!


Last Login: 12/4/2023 11:08:55 PM
Posts: 3,232, Visits: 5,166
Hello Everyone

Glad the site survived and happy to be back.

Conformed and clamped my structural steel to my wood templates, tack welded in an order that would manage the drawing effects of heat expansion from the welding process that would pull the parts out of alignment, then deep welded the parts and ground the finished welds. NOTE: The Tumbler front arms took me quite a while to get them to the point I was satisfied with the design and dimensional aspects. So, after 8-hours work I have two symmetrical structurally finished Tumbler arms but there is still a lot left to do to them. vertigo

  Post Attachments 
TUMBLER-FRONT END-arms 001.jpg (95 views, 598.98 KB)
TUMBLER-FRONT END-arms 005.jpg (87 views, 496.15 KB)

Post #92666
Posted 4/1/2014 8:44:34 PM


You reap what you sow

You reap what you sow


Last Login: 9/19/2023 12:52:32 AM
Posts: 7,314, Visits: 29,372
Looking good dude!






Post #92672
Posted 4/3/2014 4:27:46 PM
Has NO LIFE!!

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Last Login: 12/4/2023 11:08:55 PM
Posts: 3,232, Visits: 5,166
Hey Big Bozo,

Thanks for the words of encouragement.

I started working on the Tumbler arms and front end because they appeared to be the most difficult parts to engineer and construct. Figure if I can build the front everything else will probably be a little easier. I have found that building the Tumbler is about 3-research hours to 1-hour of physical building. Like youngbat said its about the actual construction more than the finished build. I believe any other philosophy when building the Tumbler would probably only lead to anguish and disappointment. For me I spend a lot of time conceptualizing and working out everything until I feel I have it as right as I'm going to get it. If I get too wound up on something I give myself a break and work on some other aspect of the Tumbler for a while then I go back and work on the one giving me the problem solving trouble. vertigo  

Post #92692
Posted 4/4/2014 3:45:27 PM
Has NO LIFE!!

Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!


Last Login: 12/4/2023 11:08:55 PM
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Hey Everyone,

Just a little note to avoid any misunderstanding. When I say it takes about 3-hours research for each build hour. That doesn't include the research and preparation year I spent before attempting the actual build. Most of the current 3-hours in research to 1-hour build time is spent in problems solving, conceptualizing, brainstorming, trial and error design/engineering, drawing, life sized templates, product searching, etc. I'm a beliver in life sized wood templates. It is a lot better to make your mistakes in wood than steel. They either fit right together or they don't. If something is wrong with your dimensions and/or clearances you'll find it with the use of wood templates. 

Post #92696
Posted 5/4/2014 3:22:07 PM
Has NO LIFE!!

Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!Has NO LIFE!!


Last Login: 12/4/2023 11:08:55 PM
Posts: 3,232, Visits: 5,166
Hello Everyone,

I took a three week break from my Tumbler build to finish up the structural work on my other build, a completely functional, high performance, military fast attack dune buggy. I have finished up all the work on tubing, frame reinforcements, machine gun swivel mounts, etc. It is now ready for paint prep then painting when I take my next break from my Tumbler build. For now though I have returned to working on my Tumbler build.


  Post Attachments 
HALEY-DUNE BUGGY 057.jpg (62 views, 533.93 KB)
HALEY-DUNE BUGGY 058.jpg (35 views, 565.46 KB)
HALEY-DUNE BUGGY 005.jpg (53 views, 516.62 KB)
HALEY-DUNE BUGGY 015.jpg (34 views, 516.93 KB)
HALEY-DUNE BUGGY 017.jpg (45 views, 512.08 KB)
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