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 Posted 5/1/2005 11:36:10 AM |
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Forum Guru
 
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| Yeah, I love it when people like that post (I am referring to "No Way"... I wonder if he is related to "Fred"?). FYI, someone is offering kits right now cast with vinylester resin for around $15k. And yes, it IS better than polyester resin. Everything Bob said is true my mysterious friend.
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| Posted 5/1/2005 11:36:38 AM |
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Forum Newbie
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hey, let me say sorry - I didn't mean to come off arrogant or pompous. My fault if I did. Sometimes I get so tired on chat boards of having to be careful of how I say what's on my mind. Or trying to be politicaly correct. But I don't mean to be disrespectful of anyone.
Let me breifly re-phrase what I am getting at.
Basically what I mean is that from my experience it's better to think long term. If it takes more time to save some money for the extra steel to make a solid chassis, I'm telling ya it's worth it. I'm trying to give advice so that 10 yrs. down the road when every body and their uncle has an 89 body blank, your car will still have value beside being just another pull from someones mold. Or warped because the fiberglasser in haste used a tad bit too much Catylst in the resin which increased the warpage. It can happen.
Having a good car not need be a function of money. In fact, when it comes to paying others for custom stuff you can end up paying through the nose because of lack of knowledge, or experience. When I got started, I had planned on having a chassis builder build me a chassis. My Cost: 7K for a front clip and rear clip held together with just 2 rails. JUST 2 Pieces of steel 2"X 3" that cost about 150.00 bucks!!!!.
I would say having a quality car is more about the buyer or builders knowledge then outright cash.
When I say epoxy cost more than 2 times the amount of polyester that's the material cost, not the labor. example:
Lets say you wanted someone to pull you a body blank. They tell you it's gona be 10K. Ok. you now ask them how much of that is materials and how much is labor. They should tell you that out of a 55 gal drum of polyester, and using 1.5 ounce matting what that should be. Now their cost of resin will be cheaper for them if they buy the resin in bulk. In that situation I would guestimate the material cost to be roughly in the 1,500.00 range for the whole body blank. I can tell you that they won't use even half of the 55 gal drum for one car. Now you do the math. So possibly for another 500.00 to 1,000.00 you could have epoxy possibly???. Heck ya!!. Cost it out yourself. They even have charts describing mass material coverage. Note: you also want to get into aspects of fiberglass layup. i.e. Matting was really made for polyester (this is because the styrene disolves the binders) But I've used it with epoxy with great success. Technique.. Remember on a Batmobile you gotta stand on it to get in it. It would kinda suck if everytime you jumped on it you could feel the body cave in..... of course mech. reinforcement.... honeycomb, etc...
By learning to do some of the stuff yourself you gain understanding, and the ability to over time, improve your skills and later on, replace that windshield with a better sculpt, a tighter fit etc....
Some people just want to hand off the cash and let someone else do the thinking. If so, thats ok. some just can't stand getting into the nuts and bolts. But if so, you will never really know whether or not you did good, fair, or bad. Wish I knew more about homes before I bought my house 15 yrs ago...... I paid people to do my thinking..... I now pay for that.....
So in short I am trying to get you to what I know you really want, without worrying about steppin on toes. You want a car that even when you stand right in front of it, it takes your breath away. Not a function of money, but a function of thinking. Now by saying that, I'm not implying that anyone is stupid... please understand that.
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| Posted 5/1/2005 11:36:52 AM |
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| I agree Bob. We are all happy to have you here on the board. I personally hope you can stick around and share your knowledge with us as more and more of us attempt this build, because people like you and Kevin and Jack and many others are so generous in their information - it really helps out the rest of us!
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| Posted 5/1/2005 11:37:07 AM |
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No Way, here... have a tall glass of shut the hell up juice. The point of this forum is that we are all here to contribute, to advance knowledge of this car. People like DooHee, Tim, Jack, Kevin, Dave, batcave8k and now Bob are here to share that knowledge. Sure even people like me who have little resource other than pictures posted for knowledge, and the odd article still try to help when we can. Sure, I have got a few things wrong since this site began, but it is because of these people, the time taken to help others... that we all prosper by that, and you know what... it's a pleasure to me when someone can point out my mistakes and avoid someone else having the wrong advice.
I may be to you, just a smart-mouthed idiot who writes crap stories and stupid comments. To others an irritation or joke, but I have my place amongst these people... we are all here with an open mind... sadly something you clearly don't have.... and for that I am sorry. All you are doing with your flaming of Bob, is to get the guy to say "Fuck you, I am trying to help... but if you don't want that help... fine.. build a car that will become over time horrible to look at and worthless of your efforts."
It's about giving back... even when it hurts to hear it...
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| Posted 5/1/2005 11:37:20 AM |
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| I agree. But I am also pretty sure Bob understands that we as a community welcome his comments and his presence here. Those who come around ONLY to flame others are clearly not welcome.
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| Posted 5/1/2005 11:37:32 AM |
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I'm sure Bob was just giving his professional opinion and trying to help. I'm stuck with a polyester body and that's just that. Heck I didn't know what Polyester or Epoxy resin was until a couple of years ago and to be honest I still don't. I did buy a gallon of epoxy resin recently and it is a lot more expensive then the polyester resin that I bought at the local parts store. I wish I had something better but that's what I have to work with. What I will have if and when I finish will be mine and I'll be happy with it.
Bob what did you do with your Keaton frame? Post some pictures, we all love pictures.
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| Posted 5/1/2005 11:37:51 AM |
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| as I said above, I stopped the 89' at the chassis and did the 95' car instead (someday I'll explain why). I sculpted the 95' car from scratch, you can check it out on our website. I'm on the tumbler right now. More pics on the site in mid-May. There are some things on the 95' I want to do over, but not right now. 95' should be done end of may. Same Issues apply to both cars. you gotta be able to walk on the car to get into it. All the batmobiles have long specific wheel bases, (89 = 141, 95 = 118, 05 = 140) which makes them all ripe for a ground up chassis. you got a slidin' canopy, etc.. etc..
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| Posted 5/1/2005 11:37:59 AM |
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One thing I look forward to is that someday when I get back on the 89' I will have so much more to bring to the table now, then if I had completed it back then. There tons of things that I would have done back then, that today I look back at myself and laugh..
Will try to dig up a pic of the rolling chassis. I remember just looking at the Mickeythompons on the rear gave me goosebumps. I had the widest ones I could get. Damn things looked so powerful.
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| Posted 5/1/2005 11:38:20 AM |
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I do agree with you on some points, I have noticed that most people scrimp on a quality of the body to save a few bucks. And spend thousands on gadgets for the car and end up having to spend twice the amount trying to straighten out the body. Or to compensate for buying something that is close but not right.
There is one builder that casts each piece separately and bonds them together to make a whole car. No one does this any more at least I thought so.
As far as polyester resin and a blown car they go together, cheap and fast, no quality here. People will go for it every time, most don¡¯t care I have talked till I am blue in the face. They will tell me, but I can get a body for 7grand, you get what you pay for. Then they wine when they get stuck with a warped pile of junk, that they will have to pay thousands to try to straighten out.
For the 89 components is a miss match of various civil and military aircraft components. I spent over twenty years in military aviation and have been able to locate most of the parts, some I am still scrounging for. The cockpit panels were thrown in for looks. Most people would be better off going with a custom cockpit. The car contains far too many comm. panels for my liking.
Welcome: to the board, Bob
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| Posted 5/1/2005 11:38:31 AM |
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Supreme Being
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Wow, where do I start? I guess with #1...
Although I've seen just about all the cars out there, I don't think I've noticed any that had the windshield bolted from the outside. I'll have to look through my pictures again. Does anyone have any good pictures of this?
(that's it for tonight, I'm going to bed...)
1. bolting the windshield from outside the canopy. They did this alot in all the six flags cars. cheap, quick, and dirty. I think rods and racers did it too. It can take away from the mistique of the car. Can make it look like an amusement park ride. go the distance.
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